US Air Plane down in the Hudson River in NYC

[Verbal]

Will US Air be charged moorage fees?

moorage.JPG (21.62 KB) Viewed 566 times

[3WE]

Could this be the first ever successful water landing?

My thought too. And it looks so great, I wonder if there is much structural damage.

Don't you think it merits a "wow"?

That's a difficult question.

This is certainly an unusual event.

However, it does not involve ITS nor Texas.

[flyboy2548m]

It appears I've read some of this Captain's writings on operational safety during some of my research for ALPA.

[reubee]

Thought a screen shot for posterity would be worthwhile. My favorite part: "Arrived 57 minutes ago!"

flightaware.JPG

Doesn't this show where the flight tracker picked them up as they climbed, then made a left turn, and then flight tracker loses them in the bottom left corner? Couldn't find a zoom out feature to confirm

I don't think so. The yellow track line seems to end abruptly about 3/4ths of the way between the 0- and the 1-mile marks on the scale. The blue line for the Hudson does continue beyond the borders of the map.

Have a look at http://www4.passur.com/lga.html replay mode starting at Jan 15 2009 15:26. N461SA would've got a fright!

[Dummy Pilot]

It appears I've read some of this Captain's writings on operational safety during some of my research for ALPA.

Capt. Chelsey B. "Sully" Sullenberger

US Air Force Academy grad and former F-4 pilot. Hired at USair in 1980. Has worked extensively for ALPA as local Air Safety Chairman, developed CRM course, accident investigator, and Check Airman. Apparently runs a side business called Safety Reliability Methods, INC that according to the website, "Provides technical expertise and strategic vision and direction to improve safety and reliability in a variety of high risk industries".

No mention yet of the F/O or who was at the controls, but clearly the entire crew (including the cabin) played a role in the outcome of this accident.

[Sickbag]

Can anyone tell me what role the C.A.P. played in this event?
I have been told they are past masters at finding submerged craft.

[Verbal]

Can anyone tell me what role the C.A.P. played in this event?

CAP will be hosting a media event in New York tomorrow at which they will unveil their spiffy new uniforms.

[IntheShade]

It appears I've read some of this Captain's writings on operational safety during some of my research for ALPA.

Capt. Chelsey B. "Sully" Sullenberger

US Air Force Academy grad and former F-4 pilot. Hired at USair in 1980. Has worked extensively for ALPA as local Air Safety Chairman, developed CRM course, accident investigator, and Check Airman. Apparently runs a side business called Safety Reliability Methods, INC that according to the website, "Provides technical expertise and strategic vision and direction to improve safety and reliability in a variety of high risk industries".

No mention yet of the F/O or who was at the controls, but clearly the entire crew (including the cabin) played a role in the outcome of this accident.

Indeed. He does look a little past his "use before" date.

[orangehuggy]

From the AP:

A spokesman for the National Air Traffic Controllers Union says the pilot reported a "double bird strike" about 30 to 45 seconds after takeoff and said he needed to return to LaGuardia. The controller instructed the pilot to divert to an airport in nearby Teterboro, N.J., for an emergency landing

Hang on a minute! If the pilot says he NEEDS to return why would the controller send him to an airport 11 miles away - an airport he could not reach???

[flyboy2548m]

Hang on a minute! If the pilot says he NEEDS to return why would the controller send him to an airport 11 miles away - an airport he could not reach???

Probably just to make sure the parlor talkers had more questions to ask, like the one above.

[orangehuggy]

Probably just to make sure the parlor talkers had more questions to ask, like the one above.

So if the Captain says he needs to return the controller should just ignore that and do whatever is more convenient to him? C'mon man I think its a fair question, what is the correct procedure?

[flyboy2548m]

C'mon man I think its a fair question.

No, it's not. For now, look at a NY terminal chart and tell me if you can see why TEB might have seemed like a better plan.

[Putt4Par]

Well, for the history buffs, USair/US Airways has now put one in the waters around LaGuardia while departing off all 3 of the normal departure runways.

Since runway 22 is rarely if ever used for departures, it's unlikely to join the club.

Well, I guess I can laugh because everybody was safe.

DP, is it true pilots call it USS La Guardia? I know this had nothing to do with the airport but is it more difficult to land
there than your average airport?

[orangehuggy]

No, it's not. For now, look at a NY terminal chart and tell me if you can see why TEB might have seemed like a better plan.

I have looked and no I can't see why, he was closer to LGA at the time of the power loss it seems. Listen, if I'm wrong that's cool I'm not saying I'm always correct but to make this discussion a little bit useful could you please let me know why TEB was a better plan. Thanks.

[flyboy2548m]

DP, is it true pilots call it USS La Guardia? I know this had nothing to do with the airport but is it more difficult to land
there than your average airport?

I can't speak for DP's airline, but we call it La Garbage.

[flyboy2548m]

Listen, if I'm wrong that's cool I'm not saying I'm always correct but to make this discussion a little bit useful could you please let me know why TEB was a better plan. Thanks.

You're wrong because you're only considering direct distance (which we don't even know at what exact point he lost power, so even that may be doubtful), where you should also be considering time and amount of maneuvering. If he took off from Rwy 4, he likely turned to 360deg, then turned to a westerly heading for vectors to BIGGY. Meaning, prior to the turn towards BIGGY he was all but direct TEB.

[orangehuggy]

I was thinking if he took off on 4 and continued his left turn he would quickly line up for 13

[flyboy2548m]

I was thinking if he took off on 4 and continued his left turn he would quickly line up for 13

Again, that depends on where exactly he was when things went sour. I mean, think buildings and such.

[Digger]

From the AP:

A spokesman for the National Air Traffic Controllers Union says the pilot reported a "double bird strike" about 30 to 45 seconds after takeoff and said he needed to return to LaGuardia. The controller instructed the pilot to divert to an airport in nearby Teterboro, N.J., for an emergency landing

Hang on a minute! If the pilot says he NEEDS to return why would the controller send him to an airport 11 miles away - an airport he could not reach???

According to what's been posted on the NATCA bulletin board, they initially wanted to turn back toward LGA, but the pilot then asked what airport that was beneath them, which was TEB. ATC then cleared them to land at TEB, which they didn't make either.

Interpreting every word printed in the media in its literal sense is always a mistake.

It's also said that it was a veteran controller--on the order of 14-15 years experience.

[Peminu]

For what I have seen in the images, not just all the people were saved, but there is no sign of a fuel leakage, and I think that is another headache avoided (to have to clean and/or contain a fuel spill).

On the other hand, what do you think they will do: remove the fuel before rescuing/lifting the plane or leave it there and move/lift the plane as it is?

[reubee]

I took this screenshot of passur that shows where they were (the red airplace at top center) when they first started descending and presumably started thinking about a place to land place. I presume thats Teterboro thats a 90 degree left turn from their current position at the extreme edge of the map.



Was there any danger of the aircraft floating downstream into a bridge?

[B77W-QOTS]

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-a320-1044.htm

Just some info on the airframe involved.

[ZeroAltitude]

It appears I've read some of this Captain's writings on operational safety during some of my research for ALPA.

Capt. Chelsey B. "Sully" Sullenberger

US Air Force Academy grad and former F-4 pilot. Hired at USair in 1980. Has worked extensively for ALPA as local Air Safety Chairman, developed CRM course, accident investigator, and Check Airman. Apparently runs a side business called Safety Reliability Methods, INC that according to the website, "Provides technical expertise and strategic vision and direction to improve safety and reliability in a variety of high risk industries".

No mention yet of the F/O or who was at the controls, but clearly the entire crew (including the cabin) played a role in the outcome of this accident.

Indeed. He does look a little past his "use before" date.

The older the violin ....

[Sir Gallivant]

Was there any danger of the aircraft floating downstream into a bridge?

There was of course the risk of the aircraft hitting a bridge, but the speed would not be higher than that of the current and I certainly hope that the bridges are constructed to take a hit from a heavier object than an Airbus 320 at low speed. Some of the ferries running back and forth are likely heavier than 60 tons and might "attack" a bridge support at speeds of current plus own speed.

[Sir Gallivant]

Looking closer at a map of the area, not many bridges to hit, actually. Tapan Zee is too far north to be a factor, George Washington a possibility, did the aircraft touch down north of that? Doesn't look like it from the map on page one of this topic. And from cnn: "Air traffic controllers at LaGuardia saw the plane clear the George Washington Bridge by less than 900 feet before gliding into the water about 3:31 p.m"

The next two crossings are Lincoln and Holland tunnels, then there is quite a ways out to Verrazzano Narrows.